2024-03-18
29 分钟Hey, there, it's Steven Dubner.
We just started publishing a series called the True Story of America's supremely messed up immigration system.
As we were working on the series, we came across an interview we did back in 2015 for an episode called is migration a basic human right?
We interviewed a variety of people for that episode, economists, political scientists, refugees from Egypt and Syria, and they all had very different perspectives on immigration.
But there was one interview that really stayed with me.
I think it is a human right, but I do think that there is a sense where somebody's taking my bread, so why don't they live in their own country?
That is the voice of Madeleine Albright.
She was born in Prague in 1937 and was a refugee in her youth.
Twice, as you may know, Albright would go on to serve as us secretary of state under President Bill Clinton.
She was also us ambassador to the United Nations.
Albright died in 2022 at age 84.
Today I wanted to share this conversation with you as a bonus episode in our immigration series.
There has been a lot of change in the world since 2015 when we spoke, but I think you will find that Albrights worldview is almost strangely appropriate for the present moment.
One thing worth mentioning, since we talk a bit about the European Union near the beginning of the episode.
This conversation took place before the 2016 Brexit referendum, when the UK voted to leave the EU.
As always, thanks for listening.
Hello, Madam Secretary.
Hi.
How are you?
Very well.