In Katherine May’s newest book, Wintering: The Power of Rest and Retreat in Difficult Times, she explores how we relate to the painful periods in our lives—and what we can gain from normalizing the need to rest and tend to our wounds. In her conversation with host Elise Loehnen, May says that one reason many of us feel ashamed about our dark periods is because we’re taught to look down on other people’s misfortunes. This in turn makes it difficult to respect our own pain. May shares what changed for her when she allowed herself to see sadness as a need and not something to run from. For example, it helped her stop feeling addicted to productivity and busyness and begin to let go of the need to control everything. “We have got to stop feeling responsible for controlling our lives because that attempt is devastating us,” she says. “And it’s a lie—we just cannot do it.” (For more, see The goop Podcast hub.) To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices