As former US president Donald Trump undermines Nato, is it high time for Europe to get its act together and spend more on defence? What would another Trump presidency mean for the future of the alliance? Andrew Mueller speaks to Ukrainian politician Hanna Hopko, former Estonian president Toomas Hendriks Ilves, Estonia’s minister of defence, Hanno Pevkur, and Nato policy planning chief Benedetta Berti. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.