Former counterterrorism operative Mubin Shaikh joins Andrew Mueller to explain how he went from being a supporter of Islamist extremism to working undercover for the Canadian Security Intelligence Service inside the “Toronto 18” terrorist group. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Religion is like a hammer.
You can either build a home with it or you can destroy a home with it.
It kind of depends on what your outlook is.
So for me, my outlook was not really.
I wanted to just, you know, commit violence and mindless violence.
For some people, that is the case.
They may have come from traumatic backgrounds and they just come to a point where they just want to lash out to the rest of the world.
For me, that wasn't the case.
For me, I think I was looking to apply myself in a way that could be perceived and would be welcomed as righteous violence.
For me, anyway, it was not a question of, okay, I now, you know, I feel that I'm.
I'm legitimized and I'm just going to go and commit the violence.
There were always points of introspection.
One of the defining conflicts of the 21st century has been that waged in the shadows between the seething legions of Islamist fanaticism and the intelligence services seeking to thwart them.
It would be remarkable enough to speak to someone who has been on one side of this conflict.
This week's guest has been on both.
Indeed, after a fashion, both at once.
Mubin Shaikh grew up in Toronto and was among the generation of young Western Muslims seduced by the notion of jihad.
After the attacks on the United States of September 11, 2001, prompted some reflection on which side he should be on.
He worked undercover for the Canadian Security Intelligence Service and the Royal Canadian Mounted Police.
He played a key role in bringing to justice the would be terror cell known as the Toronto 18.