Five times 13.
Now, our next speaker is no stranger to talking about wars.
Kathy Newman is one of the lead presenters of Channel 4 News, which is,
well, I would say the best news program on the telly at the moment.
And he has had lots of scoops, including all.
Lots of seedy stuff that's happened in Westminster,
as well
as being the only journalist who traveled to the Congo to report on the sexual violence when Angelina Jolie was doing
that.
And Cathy is also, in her kind of spare time,
has a wonderful series where she interviews women about how they got to where they've got to.
And she's called this series and the subsequent book the Ladder.
So I'd like to start off
because just the fact that you call it the ladder means we're still climbing.
Yeah, I mean, the ladder.
In a way, I'm sort of a bit tongue in cheek because, as you'll know from reading the book,
a lot of the women who I interview say, well,
the best thing about a career ladder is not to think of it as a ladder,
because actually it's not A to B, and, you know,
straight up the rung and you're toiling up to the top,