Welcome to the world in 10 in an increasingly uncertain world.
This is the Times daily podcast dedicated to global security Today with me,
Alex Dibble and Stuart Willey.
A group chat involving senior members of Donald Trump's Cabinet inadvertently made public has sparked embarrassment in Washington and unease on this side of the Atlantic.
A journalist was added to a conversation about US strikes on the Houthis in Yemen,
the one the White House has launched an investigation, but the security implications are undeniable.
Sharing top secret plans on the Signal messaging app represents a significant breach.
Yet perhaps even more troubling is the candid discussion about the American relationship with Europe,
which could have far reaching consequences.
Our guest today is Michael Evans,
the Times former defence editor and Pentagon correspondent who now covers security for us.
Michael is, in your vast experience, can you think of any breaches as serious as this one?
I've been racking my brain to recall any of the, any similar sort of incidents.
I mean, there have been lots of pretty wild leaks over the years, but no, I don't think so.
I think this is an exceptional incident which will put the frighteners on the Trump administration and get various procedures changed pretty rapidly.
The people involved, J.D. vance, Pete Hegseth,
Mike Waltz, they're not career security professionals.
Are they perhaps naive?
How does this leak reflect on them?
I mean, I think the first thing that probably should be said.