Classic Debate: Ian Fleming vs John le Carré

经典辩论:伊恩·弗莱明对约翰·勒卡雷

Intelligence Squared

社会与文化

2025-04-06

1 小时 10 分钟
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They are the titans of the spy novel, who have elevated thrillers to the level of literary fiction. Much imitated, much adapted by the big and small screens, Ian Fleming and John Le Carré have painted our picture of post-war espionage: Fleming through the dashing figure of James Bond, with his lush locations and Martinis as icy as his heart; Le Carré through his damning portrait of the British secret service drawn from his own time in MI5 and MI6. But which of the two novelists is the greater? In this thrilling contest, Fleming’s case was made by Anthony Horowitz, creator of the bestselling Alex Rider spy novels and author of the official Bond continuation novel Trigger Mortis. Championing Le Carré – whose memoir about his life as a former spy currently sits in the bestseller lists – was David Farr, Emmy-nominated screenwriter of the BBC’s adaptation of The Night Manager. Actors Lesley Manville, Simon Callow, Matthew Lewis and Alex Macqueen joined us to bring both authors' works to life along with our host, author and critic Erica Wagner. ----  If you'd like to become a Member and get access to all our full ad free conversations, plus all of our Members-only content, just visit intelligencesquared.com/membership to find out more. For £4.99 per month you'll also receive: - Full-length and ad-free Intelligence Squared episodes, wherever you get your podcasts - Bonus Intelligence Squared podcasts, curated feeds and members exclusive series - 15% discount on livestreams and in-person tickets for all Intelligence Squared events  ...  Or Subscribe on Apple for £4.99: - Full-length and ad-free Intelligence Squared podcasts - Bonus Intelligence Squared podcasts, curated feeds and members exclusive series … Already a subscriber? Thank you for supporting our mission to foster honest debate and compelling conversations! Visit intelligencesquared.com to explore all your benefits including ad-free podcasts, exclusive bonus content and early access. … Subscribe to our newsletter here to hear about our latest events, discounts and much more. https://www.intelligencesquared.com/newsletter-signup/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
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单集文稿 ...

  • Welcome to Intelligence Squared, I'm Connor Boyle.

  • For the Sunday debate this week, an archive listen pitting two masters of Cold War fiction,

  • or at least that's what they claimed,

  • against one another, Ian Fleming, creator of James Bond vs John Le Carré,

  • author of Tinker, Taylor, Soldier, Spy and many others.

  • The works of spy novel author John Le Carré often occupying the murky worlds of intelligence,

  • gathering between the Cold War superpowers of East and West,

  • still feels timely today, as the worlds considers what to do with another tyrant in the Kremlin.

  • Le Carré is also the subject of two new books out this month, A Private Spy and A Secret Heart.

  • Ian Fleming was the creator of the worlds favourite spy of course, James Bond,

  • and in 2016 we gathered a panel of expert speakers and great actors to debate which spy master comes out on top.

  • Here's our host, the author and critic, Erica Wagner, with more.

  • I'm really delighted to be here tonight.

  • When we will see whether our conversation remains as martini ice-cool as one of our authors tonight,

  • or grows as smoking gun hot as the other.

  • For this evening we will be pitting against each other the two giants of espionage, Ian Fleming and John Le Carré.

  • In one corner, Ian Fleming, Goldfinger, Dr.

  • No, Casino Royale, Super Spy, James Bond always leaves us both shaken and stirred.

  • In the ring with him, John Le Carré, Tinker, Taylor, Soldier, Spy, Smiley's People,

  • The Spy, books where betrayal of the realm and of the heart are on top of the menu.