Hello, and welcome to Forever 35, a podcast about the things we do to take care of ourselves.
I'm Dori Shafriar.
And I'm Elise Hu, and we are two friends who like to talk a lot about serums, and sometimes about cults.
Yes, great intro, Elise.
They don't come up often, but there is kind of a cult-like atmosphere around certain charismatic leaders.
That is not true.
Right.
Yeah.
Right.
Yeah.
That's real.
No, I made that segue because of our guest today, who is Jane Borden,
a friend of Dori's, and we can get into it a little bit more later.
But yes,
as we are contemplating this moment in which Donald Trump is the center of our lives and our attention every single day,
because every day he demands our attention, it has raised a lot of questions about how we got here.
And I thought talking to Jane, whose expertise is fanaticism and cults,
was actually really illuminating for the moment that we're in.
Yep.
Yes.