When you start to believe that people are unchangeable, you're actually just dooming your own movement.
If you really feel like the kind of political values you hold powerful or meaningful would make the society better, you should be profoundly optimistic about the ability of those values to conquer all kinds of communities and all kinds of moral frames.
So is it even possible to have genuinely open conversation that holds the potential to persuade someone to your point of view anymore?
Or have we entered a post persuasion state?
And if so, is there a way to change that for the good?
As we all have navigated the last years of increasing conflict, deep identity level disagreement, maybe you've noticed an increasing culture of futility driven apathy.
Social, religious, political and other views are increasingly seen as unchangeable.
So why even bother?
Increasingly, people are just writing off anyone who doesn't automatically see the world the way they do.
It's just not worth the effort they believe.
The problem is, this assumption is not only wrong, but when we refuse to give others and even ourselves permission to ask questions, change minds, including our mind, or think differently than their current label or belief leads with.
Well, who really wins in either scenario?
Nobody.
This apathy only deepens or reinforces divides behaviors and at scale policies that may well cause large scale harm.
So how do we break through?
How do we move people back into conversation and set the table for openness and maybe even persuasion to a different set of ideas, beliefs, and actions?
Our guest today, Anand Giridharadas, has been studying this very question for years as a journalist, former New York Times columnist, author of several books, including his latest book, the persuaders at the front lines of the fight for hearts, minds, and democracy.
This best selling book takes a look at the seeming lost art of social persuasion and argues the current state of conversational apathy threatens not only our personal relationships and well being, but the very fiber of good society in our conversation today, Ananda and I dive deeper into the politics of persuasion, dissect the underlying drivers and motivations behind division, identity, politics, social reinforcement, and explore a number of specific ideas and strategies designed to help us all get back to a place of more empathy and understanding.
So excited to share this conversation with you.
I'm Jonathan Fields, and this is good life project.